Sheria Smith is President of AFGE Local 252, which represents workers at the U.S. Department of Education. As the Trump-Musk administration moved to completely dismantle her agency, Smith suddenly became the focal point of the labor movement’s fightback. People’s World talked with her in Dallas on March 23.
People’s World: When Trump and Musk started their attack against the Education Department, did they remove you?
Sheria Smith: I received notice of my layoff on March 11. The next day, the local union members voted to keep me as president.
Has the media recognized the central position you occupy today in Trump and Musk’s war against working families?
I have been interviewed by CNN, MSNBC, The Wall Street Journal, CBS, New York Times, Washington Post, and we’ve had members contacted by USA Today. We are grateful to the press for getting our story out, and it’s good that a number of them are unionized, too.
How much damage are Trump and Musk doing; will it hit student benefits?
Certainly, it will, especially when it comes to student loans. Federal Student Loans is our largest division at the Department of Education. Texans who are applying for college and needing student loans to fund their college—not just Texans, but students in every state—will likely not be receiving that money this year. They’re going to face major difficulties.
But it’s not just student loans; the Education Department is responsible for so much more…particularly when it comes to dealing with discrimination and inequality in educational opportunity.
It will be extremely costly. Nationwide, we should expect irreparable harm, that’s why we’ve got to try to stop some of this before it can happen.
Who will be hurt the most?
Everyone is going to feel it, but I think people of low incomes are going to feel the brunt of it because they’re the ones most reliant on public schools, and they require funding from the Department of Education.
Certainly, people of lower incomes will need more help with funding their education and even in accessing it. But it will impact everyone. Even if you are a billionaire, it may take some time to impact you, but to the extent that you need educated people to work for you, that’s going to be very difficult if the majority of Americans don’t have access to education.
We can certainly say, though, that people of color, people of lower means, working class people, unfortunately, are going to feel this impact worse.
How has labor responded? Are you pleased with the response of your union, American Federation of Government Employees?
Yes, we have been very fortunate, my members and I, to have a responsive and supportive federation. It’s a federation that, like our local, was prepared for contingencies. It is unfortunate that we are having to utilize those plans and preparations, but we built up a war chest.
We also built up our outside help. We’ve talked to the press about the impact that this is having on the American people. I am hoping that what is happening to us is instructive to the rest of the labor movement.
Since there is a general attack against American children, on their nutrition as well as their schools, the American Federation of Teachers seems to be responding as well. Are AFT and AFGE working together?
Yes, I got to participate in a few rounds of discussions both in Texas and nationwide. Even before we worked anything out, the AFT leadership and AFGE started pulling together. AFGE is very grateful to the AFT. We do different work, but we are certainly aligned. They are standing up for the existence of our agency.
What about other union support?
We’ve had incredible support from the labor movement as a whole. The AFL-CIO, the National Education Association, and even people outside the education industry. I just received a very nice donation from a Steelworkers union in my hometown of Gary, Indiana.
What we want all Americans to realize is that we in the Education Department are just the first stop in what they’re planning to do. We are a model of what is still to come, if the administration is allowed to get away with it.
They’re not honoring nor responding to collective bargaining agreements. And it won’t stop with the federal workers; it won’t stop with the Department of Education.
If this is how they are going to treat public servants—and just to break that down, they are going to fire public servants without cause, they are going to break up collective bargaining agreements that were negotiated, they are going to make it difficult for people to participate in unions and for union leaders to represent their people—if they are going to do that with public servants, the workforce that is supposed to be protected, then I think that every American person, every working American person, should be worried about what will become of their job.
If this is what the federal government is doing, then nothing will stop private sector employers and these robber barons from doing the same or worse.
Isn’t it true 7 out of every 10 unionized workers in America are public employees?
Smith: I don’t know the exact statistics, but I do know that our percentage of membership is rising. We’re nearing 100% membership in my local; almost everyone in the workplace is in the union. People appreciate their union when they are facing a lawless boss, and that is what federal employees are facing right now.
A national audience might not understand that Texas is one of the places where people who benefit from unionization don’t have to pay dues, so in Texas it is very significant that people who previously might have been called “free riders” are now joining the union.
Yes, it’s very significant. They are realizing that the union is their only protection against this complete lawlessness. Even though Texas people have the legal ability to free ride, they understand the importance of the union’s ability to fund the fight, to hire lawyers, to hire union professionals to help with communications. So, their dues money is a small investment for protecting their families.
In addition to swelling membership roles in locals, isn’t it also true that more union locals are affiliating with the AFL-CIO, the national labor federation?
Absolutely! We’re stronger together. You know, when you’re by yourself, it’s hard to fight a giant, but when you’re fighting together and getting together and learning strategies from each other, you recognize that our interests are more aligned than they are different.
You can make the collaboration more seamless, and that’s what we’re seeing. I think anyone who needs help today will join with us because our interests are absolutely aligned.
Some specific unions are responding very well to AFGE’s and your Local’s calls for help and solidarity. Is the national movement treating this fight at the Education Department with the seriousness it deserves?
Yes, I think so. I realize that I am the Local president of this one agency, but I also know and feel that we are not alone. Our agency is not the only one under attack. Even though I have not had a personal conversation with President Liz Shuler of the national AFL-CIO, I know that she is supportive.
I know those conversations are being held by AFGE leadership and the national federation. What is happening should never have happened in the first place, but it’s where we are. This is much worse than what we experienced during the first Trump administration.
A lot of us are drinking from a fire hose. I recognize that people are taking this seriously and that they are supportive. I also recognize that we’re all kind of building the plane as we fly it. We’re learning now how we can coordinate with each other.
One of the positive things is how we have shared our stories with some non-union organizations, like the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, and how the students and their groups are now reaching out to us and coordinating their efforts with ours.
When you think about public servants, it’s not just the public servants but also the public that we serve who are aligned with us. We’re getting organized, but this is new, and we are just learning how to coordinate at this level.
The Texas AFL-CIO and certainly the Dallas Central Labor Council are helping. I have been charging up my participation by going to more rallies and speaking at more occasions, such as at the Veteran’s Affairs hospital. We’re also supporting the postal workers. On Tuesday, I will be rallying with workers at the Environmental Protection Agency.
Even outside the public service sector, we’re reaching out to other working people wherever and whenever we can. It’s unfortunate sometimes to realize that people need a crisis like this to understand just how important that solidarity is.
We’ve heard you speak in public, and you don’t just talk about the troubles of your own union local, but rather about a national crisis, a national attack, that at this moment happens to be focused on your local. Your speeches seem to be a call to arms against what Trump and Musk are doing. Is that an accurate assessment?
Absolutely. We are stronger together. I think too often groups focus only on their own problems and their own issues. The positive thing about this crisis—which is a crisis for our economy, for our ability to provide for ourselves and our families—the positive thing is that people all seem to understand that the problem is not us and it’s not other working people.
People know that the source of the problem is the boss, and in our case as public workers, that means Trump.
People are responding to what’s going on, and I’m confident they’re going to keep responding. That’s what we’ve seen in history, that people respond when they are under the gun. Just look back at the history of the labor movement in our country, for instance. They started the AFL and later the CIO when working people had had enough. These organizations and institutions were created because a problem existed beforehand.
I don’t want anybody to think that this is somebody else’s fight or that the courts and Congress should be left to figure this out. We have to attack this problem from every angle.
Every person needs to do their part, not just sit back and wait on someone else. Every working person should be calling Congress and should be speaking out and should be preparing themselves and their families, both financially and emotionally, for this egregious attack on our rights.
If we do that work, the attacks will stop. But if we in-fight or sit back and hope somebody else will handle it, then we will be consumed.
You mention how instructive it is to look back at other struggles of the past.
Yes, that’s why history is instructive. Maybe that’s why they want to get rid of the Department of Education, so people won’t know their history.
When things like this have happened before, working together was the only way that attacks on workers have been ended and wrongs have been righted. We not only have to stand together, we also have to tell the story and make sure that no one forgets why we have the AFL-CIO, why we have the unions, and why we have federal agencies.
They exist because there was some issue before that they had to have corrected. Why do we have vaccines? It’s because people were dying from measles. If we forget why these things existed, we might allow for other clowns in future generations to talk about how we don’t need them anymore and try to eliminate them. Then we would have to re-learn that fire is hot.
I do hope that not only do we stand together, but also that we write it down and teach the next generation and the generation after that so that these things don’t ever happen again.
What would you like everyone to do?
If I could get everything my way, I would want everyone to remember how connected we all are. I think this myth of individualism has infected this situation we are currently in. I want people to realize their connectivity so that in the next election they don’t vote to harm another group of people without realizing that they are actually harming themselves.
People must realize our interconnectedness and an have understanding that all of us need to meet our basic needs. By protecting those rights for others, we protect our own rights. I want people to take voting seriously and hope that we never again allow candidates to campaign to prioritize one group of people over another.
You know that old saying that first they came for the socialists and I didn’t say anything because I was not a socialist, and then they came for the unionists…. you get my drift? If you don’t speak up, they will eventually come for you, and there will be no one to fight for you. So, fight right now while we are still here, and let’s never allow this to happen again.
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